Curse

~ Dan ~ · Oct 10, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10204939

Quote:

Balthazar: Solo-capping shrines, snaring, off-tanking (WoW term but it fits here too) and holy damage. Holy damage conversion good against many undead and some necromancers who use that extra holy damage insignia. Decent versus other tanks and Dervishes.
-PvP Capability: Decent
-PvE Capability: Better

Quote:

Balthazar: Bunch of weak buffs, hobbled together to form a weak elite. No real use, apart from flagging someone as an idiot.
-PvP Capability: None
-PvE Capability: Shit

Quote:

What i propose we do with the skill:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10204521

Quote:

Balthazar is useless. To the max.

Quote:

AoB is good for pve only.

Quote:

AoB=worst avatar for general use

Quote:

Yet sill in pve AoB is good for people who wanna tank without having to put out too much effort.

Quote:

Balthazar, on the other hand, provides a small benefit that is useful in almost all situations.

Quote:

Balthazar's great for running places

Quote:

there aren't any circumstances which it is useful.

Quote:

It's a bunch of weak, half-assed, unfocussed buffs rolled into a truly subpar elite.

Quote:

It's certainly inferior to the other avatars

Quote:

If you can achieve the same results with a non elite skill of the same profession then it is a bad skill. By that rationale AoB fails on every account.

Alot of threads i see, containing the skill Avatar Of Balthazar quickly turn into a sole debate of that skill. This is an attempt from me to gather all the points for / against that people wish to make into one thread.

So:

Discuss [skill]Avatar Of Balthazar[/skill] !!

Cebe · Oct 10, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

As far as I can see, the ONLY thing that makes this skill even remotely special is the +40 armor. The Holy Damage conversion can be achieved with Aura of Holy Might or Heart of Holy Flame, neither of which are elite. The speed boost? Who really needs a speed boost that much in PvE, especially when you compare it with the effects of other avatars, such as the Health and Condition Immunity of Melandru, the extra energy and +damage from Lyssa and the self healing and hex removal from Dwayna. The speed boost really doesn't come close to the effects of the other avatars since it can be easily enough recreated by using non-elite skills. The armor is the only thing which makes this skill stand out, and not by much since conviction can give you an extra 24 armor anyway if you really want it that bad.

In short:

+40 Armor = "meh" at best.
33% Speed Boost = why? If I was taking a skill to let me do something 33% faster, it would be Heart of Fury for the IAS.
Elite holy damage conversion < non-elite holy damage conversion.

glountz · Oct 10, 2007, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Buff AoB!
Avatar of Balthazar (E)
25 NRJ 2 cast 30 recharge 120 disable
For 15-74 seconds, you move and attack 25% faster, and gain +10...34...42 armor.

Dervish RaO FTW!

Perfected Shadow · Oct 10, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Buff AoB!
Avatar of Balthazar (E)
25 NRJ 2 cast 30 recharge 120 disable
For 15-74 seconds, you move and attack 25% faster, and gain +10...34...42 armor.

Dervish Rampage Alone FTW!

Fixed : )...

Allmightybob · Oct 10, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Unless I need to run from point A to point B, it never touches my skill bar.

Ninian_Grace · Oct 10, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

its not a bad skill...for running. id did go in my skill bar back when NF was out dervish was ''the shit'' also was AoB. not anymore...

so thats a negative from me.

Str0b0 · Oct 10, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninian_Grace

its not a bad skill...for running. id did go in my skill bar back when NF was out dervish was ''the shit'' also was AoB. not anymore...

so thats a negative from me.

Even back in NF AoB was a crap skill. They haven't really done anything to it since then. It remains a crap skill to this very day and will remain a crap skill forever and ever amen.

Ninian_Grace · Oct 10, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Even back in NF AoB was a crap skill. They haven't really done anything to it since then. It remains a crap skill to this very day and will remain a crap skill forever and ever amen.

too bad. Balthazar was the best looking of them all...maybe thats why noobs love the skill so much.

but hell, Anet won't do crap about the skill because it already blows. The moment GW users start to have a little fun with some skill (I.E. There's Nothing To Fear!) they nerf it. find a good, exploitable, build with AoB? Anet will nerf it and will make it blow even more.

boarderx · Oct 10, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

oooo, i like the idea of a AoB buff.

but yeah AoB is replacable with other skills, but if your doing a build where holy dmg, added armor and added speed is needed then AOB is a good option.

Honestly though, it is a great skill for new players to use on their bar without having it over powered in the game, but its not like it takes a genius to learn how to utilize better skills. I havnt touched AoB in a long time.

Arkantos · Oct 10, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

It's crap.

If I wanted to run, I'd much rather use [skill]Shadow Form[/skill].
If I wanted holy damage, I'd run [skill]Heart Of Holy Flame[/skill].

The +40 armor is nice, but why 40 armor?would you want to waste your elite for it?

Tyla · Oct 10, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

it IS a very pathetic skill,but some people like style over strength?
(imo it is verryyyyyyyyyyy ugly,but thats my opinion)
but 33% speed boost you get from pious haste
holy damage you get from heart of holy flame
40 armour that can be replaced by enchantments anyway
i mean what've you got out of other skills when you can run a much better elite?

zwei2stein · Oct 10, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

It was decent skill to give low level melloni. Thats it.

Stormlord Alex · Oct 10, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

I got Quoted For Truth a grand total of 4 times...

Dan. Cookie. NOW.

Seriously? ... Balth blows. Ohhh yeah.
I'd kill it with Fire, personally...

Avatar of Balthazar
Elite Form
Anyone using this PoS excuse for an elite is instantly booted from the game, has their GW client uninstalled permanently, and is replaced in the party by someone marginally more useful... A level 3 Koss with Frenzy-Healsig.

... I win this thread, right?

draxynnic · Oct 11, 2007, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by boarderx

but yeah AoB is replacable with other skills, but if your doing a build where holy dmg, added armor and added speed is needed then AOB is a good option.

By even suggesting that it can be useful for anything at all even with a very big "but", you're probably going to be slammed and labelled as a noob.

On the whole, there are certainly better elites for most situations, once you learn how to make use of the synergies the competition offers. It probably could do with an attack speed buff or some other tweak.

(I must also admit to some amusement at the irony of killing the avatar of the god of fire with fire...)

Coloneh · Oct 11, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

needs an attack speed boost either instead of the run buff or in addition to it.

jesh · Oct 11, 2007, 02:06 AM // 02:06

I once was playing with some random guy who wanted to cap some elite forms. I helped him cap AoB first, since it was really close to the base and he wanted them all.
To my utter amazement and delight, his first comment on reading the description was:

"Sweet I can spam Frenzy with this!"

I have yet to think of a better use for it. They should buff Frenzy to -40 armor instead of double damage.

I have to completely agree with the other posters who've been QFT at the top.
Conviction+Aura of Holy Might > AoB
I like the idea of RoA... but instead make it 33% for both, or even 40 or 50. Then take off the extra armor and make it: "Enemies who attack you while in this form are set on fire for 0..3 seconds."

:EDIT:
Or.. make it adjacent allies!

Avatar of Balthazar [E]
15 energy, 2 sec cast, 30 recharge, 120 disable
"For 15-74 seconds, you and all adjacent allies move and attack 25% faster. Whenever you take damage, this form deals 0-15% back to the source."

Darkside · Oct 11, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

needs an attack speed boost either instead of the run buff or in addition to it.

That would be cool. I'd probably be more tempted to use Balthazar if it had 33% IAS.

Anyway, here's my opinion on AoB...

I've been playing a dervish for about 10 months and in that time I haven't really used AoB that often. I've used it when people want a run since the 33% run speed is nice...and I have used it a few times when people wanted me to tank since +40 is nice. A lot of people here have snuffed at it but I do notice I take quite a bit less damage with the +40 armor boost. The holy damage is also nice in areas with lots of undead and just in general since a lot of monsters are not resistant to it. Yes you can get holy damage from other skills but with AoB it's always there without having to activate another skill which is nice.

So that's all great stuff unfortunately for AoB you can get a decent armor boost from Conviction or from Great Dwarven Armor. You can get holy damage from Aura of Holy Might or Heart of Holy Flame. Dervish's also have access to a lot of speed boost skills in the wind prayer line...so if you really wanna run faster you can always do that. (personally I don't care how fast I walk/run). That is what kills Balthazar. You can get all the bonuses using other skills...without wasting an elite spot.

Lyssa has damage to foes activating skills and big + to energy. No combination of skills can do that. Making Lyssa unique.

Melandru has condition immunity and +100 to life. Again making this avatar special.

Dwayna has self heal on attack as well as hex removal all in one package making her a great choice as well.

Grenth I don't have much to say about he is pretty useless in PVE.

In closing I just wanna say that Avatar of Balthazar doesn't suck. I always see everyone bashing the skill and it's not that bad. It's just that the other avatars are most useful to build a character around.

boarderx · Oct 11, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

By even suggesting that it can be useful for anything at all even with a very big "but", you're probably going to be slammed and labelled as a noob.

all i said is that its an option, lol. its a good elite option for new players, combining skills to get the same results can be a pain to new players...to NEW PLAYERS, lol.

believe it or not new players can have trouble understanding how to combine skils

Anyway, back on topic, AoB need a buff cuz its a crap skill, i used to love it in FOW but replaced it after i learned more about the derv

Cebe · Oct 11, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by boarderx

all i said is that its an option, lol. its a good elite option for new players, combining skills to get the same results can be a pain to new players...to NEW PLAYERS, lol.

believe it or not new players can have trouble understanding how to combine skils.

It isn't a good elite option for new players, since new players can cap all elite Forms by the time ethey get to Balthazar, along with some non-form elites. Why encourage new players to use a bad skill while they learn how to create builds?...it'll just set them into a downward spiral of bad choices imo.

Str0b0 · Oct 11, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

In closing I just wanna say that Avatar of Balthazar doesn't suck. I always see everyone bashing the skill and it's not that bad. It's just that the other avatars are most useful to build a character around.

Ok I already went over this in the other thread but apparently it bears repeating here. If a skill is worse than the alternatives then that makes that skill a bad skill. Worse than the alternatives means it is inferior and inferior = bad. It is not possible to defend AoB by saying, "It's not bad just the other skills of the same type are better." That means it is BAD. It's not rocket science. It is simple English.